Recruiting and message boards....

[Polemicvol]

I've read most of the thread on Volchat regarding Tennstud and AV and Maria talks about how things posted on message boards hurt recruiting. I don't post on Volchat, so I thought I would bring some of that discussion here.

Maria says AV's objection to Tennstud's rumor posting about Kiffin et al and AV's crusade against the Fulmer regime are comparable, because both will hurt recruiting. AV tries to respond by saying he posted facts and TS posted rumors and lies. Which appears true enough, but I don't think it really properly addresses Maria's contention.

I would respond thus. Maria is creating a false equivalency between AV's criticism of the program and TS's criticism of the program, because she says both will hurt recruiting. While I don't concede that either will hurt recruiting, I can't prove that it doesn't. So let's just set that aside for a moment.

The false equivalency and false argument, isn't based upon the factual or truthful basis of the criticism. No, I would instead contend that as a supporter of Tennessee athletic, the reason that AV's criticism was justified and Tennstud's isn't, is solely because of the timing of said criticism. And this is where the entire Volchat community loses touch with reality.

AV didn't publicly criticize the Fulmer regime when he first took over the head coaching job. He waited until many years had passed and he perceived a slipping of standards and came to believe that a public airing of deficiencies was needed. In fact, AV was criticizing the PERFORMANCE of the Fulmer staff, not the personalities.

No such time has passed for the new Kiffin staff. To be fair in one's criticism of any one's performance, you must allow sufficient time to pass for someone to prove what they can accomplish. The Kiffin staff hasn't yet had that opportunity to prove themselves and we a loyal Volunteers owe them that chance.

It's not an issue of true or false, or hurting or not hurting recruiting. It's an issue of FAIRNESS. It was fair to criticize the Fulmer staff, at the time AV and other here began to do so. It's not fair to criticize the Kiffin staff in the same manner at present. That time will come, but not yet.

So, as Volunteers, we owe our loyalty, patience, and our closed lips until Kiffin et al has had time to prove themselves. Or we are not truly Vols and certainly we would be acting unfairly.

[Bonevol]

Pole, I agree with you (I think). Whether CLK was anyone's first choice or not, he is the face of UT football. If he succeeds or he fails, UT's football team will follow the same path for the next 4-5 years. I don't want a continuation of the past 4-5 years, so I want him to succeed. His detractors clearly are hoping he fails, which means UT fails. Because they were so attached to the Large One, who is now gone, they are willing to sacrifice the success of the program to make others share in their disappointment. Very small people, who put their loyalty to the coach over loyalty to the program.

If Kiffin starts to unravel this thing in the latter stages of year 2 and year 3, I will be as critical of him of as I was of Fulmer.

[GhenghisVol]

Everybody here knows that message boarding has no impact on recruiting. It never has and never will, and we've given those assholes over there plenty of opporutunity to name one individual that was ever dissuaded from signing with UT because of something negative posted about Fulmer.

However, what TS is doing and the reason he's NOT allowed to post on this board anymore is maligning the character of individual coaches and the program. Unfortunately because of his undeserved high profile, its pretty obvious once he starts one of these damn rumors, it can spread like wildfire. Case in point, this granny thing that resulted in 4000 hits on OM alone, there's no telling how many people read the original post on VulvaChat. Now he's backtracking and saying "maybe DW wasnt honest with his dad" and is busy deflecting blame onto AV which is the most ridiculous thing I;ve ever seen.

This is a perfect example of the blatant hypocrisy of that board that Maria would come out of the woodwork, claim "there is nothing we can do about these rumors" but at the same time take the position that the crap posted on these boards can hurt recruiting. SO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT YOU CUNT, LIKE BAN TENNSTUD, TRIBEVOL, VOLHOLIO, TEETIME, VOL12, AND OFFTACKLE! There you go, problem solved!!! Fucking bitch.

[Polemicvol]

I have my doubts that message boards actually negatively effect recruiting. But I would address that question differently in the context of this discussion.

We can't allow concern about recruiting to become "the tail that wags the dog". Even if we stipulate, against our better judgment, that negative posts on message boards do hurt recruiting, there are situations where that just doesn't matter.

When it was time for Fulmer to step down, because of poor performance on the field, worrying about criticism hurting recruiting was silly. The far greater harm to recruiting was our shitty coaching staff and their poor performance.

At present, unsubstantiated and unfair criticism of the Kiffin staff, could perhaps harm recruiting. And as we have previously established, it is unfair and irresponsible to widely disseminate negative rumors about the program. Because the greater goal of replacing the staff, is premature at present. We just haven't given sufficient time as of yet, to the new staff, to determine if they can or can't do the job.

Anyone who releases negative information about the program at present is prejudiced against the Kiffin staff. They want this staff to fail. And they are attempting to cause that to happen. No one could see such actions under the current circumstances as anything but prejudice against Kiffin.

And the moderation decisions of Volchat illustrate that prejudice. They banned the posters who justly criticized Fulmer. And they protect the posters who now unjustly criticize Kiffin.

[humbletx]

I have my doubts that message boards actually negatively effect recruiting. But I would address that question differently in the context of this discussion.

We can't allow concern about recruiting to become "the tail that wags the dog". Even if we stipulate, against our better judgment, that negative posts on message boards do hurt recruiting, there are situations where that just doesn't matter.

When it was time for Fulmer to step down, because of poor performance on the field, worrying about criticism hurting recruiting was silly. The far greater harm to recruiting was our shitty coaching staff and their poor performance.

At present, unsubstantiated and unfair criticism of the Kiffin staff, could perhaps harm recruiting. And as we have previously established, it is unfair and irresponsible to widely disseminate negative rumors about the program. Because the greater goal of replacing the staff, is premature at present. We just haven't given sufficient time as of yet, to the new staff, to determine if they can or can't do the job.

Anyone who releases negative information about the program at present is prejudiced against the Kiffin staff. They want this staff to fail. And they are attempting to cause that to happen. No one could see such actions under the current circumstances as anything but prejudice against Kiffin.

And the moderation decisions of Volchat illustrate that prejudice. They banned the posters who justly criticized Fulmer. And they protect the posters who now unjustly criticize Kiffin.

message boards and "recruiting"...
http://outermonvolia.net/board/images/smilies/announce.gif
#1 - kids, athletes, don't take the time to read various message boards - and actually don't have the time..

#2 - ya think a coach pulling a kids scholarship and kicking him off the team for posting a slur towards an elected official on his "facebook" page would negatively impact recruiting - nope..

#3 - *if* some recruit & their family had some issue relating to Dan Williams like rumor - they aren't going to run to some bbs for answers.. *if* a Dan Williams like rumor is splashed around by an opponent - well once again they aren't going to run to some bbs for answers..

Negative information about a program - a prefect example - Notre Dame requires calculus - all students.. Now that is negative information - and does that impact their recruiting? Another rumor - USC is now having glorified try outs for scholarship offers..

[Chatta Vol]

I've read most of the thread on Volchat regarding Tennstud and AV and Maria talks about how things posted on message boards hurt recruiting. I don't post on Volchat, so I thought I would bring some of that discussion here.

Maria says AV's objection to Tennstud's rumor posting about Kiffin et al and AV's crusade against the Fulmer regime are comparable, because both will hurt recruiting. AV tries to respond by saying he posted facts and TS posted rumors and lies. Which appears true enough, but I don't think it really properly addresses Maria's contention.

I would respond thus. Maria is creating a false equivalency between AV's criticism of the program and TS's criticism of the program, because she says both will hurt recruiting. While I don't concede that either will hurt recruiting, I can't prove that it doesn't. So let's just set that aside for a moment.

The false equivalency and false argument, isn't based upon the factual or truthful basis of the criticism. No, I would instead contend that as a supporter of Tennessee athletic, the reason that AV's criticism was justified and Tennstud's isn't, is solely because of the timing of said criticism. And this is where the entire Volchat community loses touch with reality.

AV didn't publicly criticize the Fulmer regime when he first took over the head coaching job. He waited until many years had passed and he perceived a slipping of standards and came to believe that a public airing of deficiencies was needed. In fact, AV was criticizing the PERFORMANCE of the Fulmer staff, not the personalities.

No such time has passed for the new Kiffin staff. To be fair in one's criticism of any one's performance, you must allow sufficient time to pass for someone to prove what they can accomplish. The Kiffin staff hasn't yet had that opportunity to prove themselves and we a loyal Volunteers owe them that chance.

It's not an issue of true or false, or hurting or not hurting recruiting. It's an issue of FAIRNESS. It was fair to criticize the Fulmer staff, at the time AV and other here began to do so. It's not fair to criticize the Kiffin staff in the same manner at present. That time will come, but not yet.

So, as Volunteers, we owe our loyalty, patience, and our closed lips until Kiffin et al has had time to prove themselves. Or we are not truly Vols and certainly we would be acting unfairly.

Excellent pos Poley and well worded..........cept its on the wrong board. the folks that need to hear that message is on the other board.

BTW, did u get the hook a VC or is it a self-imposed santion?

I've told those ass clowns till im blu in the face. We wer bagging on phil late in his career because he was PROVING he was losing the handle on things. how in the HELL can you say Kiff will fail? they say "hell, kiffin hasnt even coached a game yet...." That's the fin point! all we can grade kiff on right now is what he HAS done at UT (forget USC and Oakland, that's like bagging on Ed O for his job at Ole Piss, different situation)

negative - kiff ran his mouth a bit but i REALLY think he did it on purpose. Even TOs agent has told him to "stay in the news"....we all know that the negativity gets more pub than the positivity. (word?)

plusses - too many too name and we ALL know what they are.

[IndianVol]

Well put Poley, couldn't agree more, although I will say that Atlanta tends to get a little carried away sometimes as well with premature criticism. For example, he has already been railing against Reaves, before the season begins. I don't think that is FAIR.

[Polemicvol]

I got banned there a bunch of times for no good reason. Finally, like a brick hitting me on the head, I realized that it's a complete waste of time to attempt civil discussions on that board. The referees there are crooked. Vol12has his head so far up Fulmer's ass that he can't act FAIRLY.

I just got frustrated watching Maria advance a false argument against AV yesterday. So I countered it here. Anyone who wants to use any or all of that post over on Volchat is welcome to do so. I don't care one iota about authorship credit.

And someone should ask Maria how much she would "respect and/or tolerate" Tennstud's rumor mongering, if the target of said rumors were her beloved Lady Vols. How about if Tennstud had posted rumors about a lesbian affair breaking up Pat Summit's marriage?**** I believe Maria would go ape shit if Tennstud's rumors were directed against the Lady Vols. She just doesn't care enough about UT football to give a shit.

***disclaimer**** I am not saying any such thing happened and don't think it did. But I'm confident that this was the rumor circulated by Geno Auriemma that caused Pat to cancel any future regular season games against Connecticut.

[Voluble2]

It is a false equivalency to compare what AV did and what Stud did. Everything AV posted about Fulmer was public knowledge... stats, coaching decisions, recruiting busts, lax discipline on and off the field etc... Everyone had access to that information. In fact, the entire purpose of message boards is to discuss those types of things.

What Stud did was rumor monger about a private matter.

That being said, I don't think either of them should be chastised for posting what they did. Stud's sin was not passing along the information so much as it was being overwrought and trying to pin something on coaches that he doesn't like. He trusted his source too much not realizing that a father and son can see things differently. Shocker that!

If something affects recruiting then so the hell what? We aren't all going to self-censor our criticisms just on the chance that some kid gets his nose out of joint. If it is something damaging then it is quite possible that it is best to get it out in the open and dealt with before it is allowed to get out of hand. It is fairer to both fans and potential recruits to have everything on the table.

Any engineer will tell you that negative feedback is important in any system that you don't want to blow the fuck up. Fulmer never received any negative feedback until it was too late and we can see where it got us.

There is of course also the minor issue of AV being correct and Stud being wrong. I know it is passe' in the post-modern world to mention such a thing but there it is.

[Polemicvol]

Stress testing does prove strength and weaknesses. And I'm confident Kiffin and staff don't give a shit about criticism.

But from a fan's perspective, I'm just not willing to take the chance that an unfounded rumor will hurt the program. Many people here get inside info of differing quality. They may discuss it privately, but don't post it publicly on a message board. Discretion being the better part of valor.

Some don't have the need for public attention. Others do. Tennstud seems to be one of those that desire notoriety and it seems at times to overcome his sense of fairness and his loyalty as a fan.

AV, on the other hand, has already criticized the Kiffin coaching staff publicly. He did so based upon his opinion of their performance, not based on salacious rumor. I have no problem with that type of rational factual criticism. That's the kind of feedback that is beneficial.

It's counterproductive for our program to have to deflect rumor and innuendo. You wouldn't think our fans would add to that burden. JMHO.

[BrassVols]

Exactly the points I would have made. Lemme help you put it more succinctly:

1. Maria is an ignorant bitch.
2. Because of point #1, she doesn't comprehend subtleties such as relative timing; the differences bewtween commenting on things in the public domain and foolishly publishing private matters that should never be in the public domain; and the motivations in each case.

3. Point #1 is equally applicable to TS, Tribe/PFagainstUT, huey, roadslut, etc. Except some of them are bigger cunts.

[AtlantaVol]

I have my doubts that message boards actually negatively effect recruiting. But I would address that question differently in the context of this discussion.

We can't allow concern about recruiting to become "the tail that wags the dog". Even if we stipulate, against our better judgment, that negative posts on message boards do hurt recruiting, there are situations where that just doesn't matter.

When it was time for Fulmer to step down, because of poor performance on the field, worrying about criticism hurting recruiting was silly. The far greater harm to recruiting was our shitty coaching staff and their poor performance.

At present, unsubstantiated and unfair criticism of the Kiffin staff, could perhaps harm recruiting. And as we have previously established, it is unfair and irresponsible to widely disseminate negative rumors about the program. Because the greater goal of replacing the staff, is premature at present. We just haven't given sufficient time as of yet, to the new staff, to determine if they can or can't do the job.

Anyone who releases negative information about the program at present is prejudiced against the Kiffin staff. They want this staff to fail. And they are attempting to cause that to happen. No one could see such actions under the current circumstances as anything but prejudice against Kiffin.

And the moderation decisions of Volchat illustrate that prejudice. They banned the posters who justly criticized Fulmer. And they protect the posters who now unjustly criticize Kiffin.

When Maria started equating the two I tried to do the "context" thing of Tennstud posting false rumors which were eaten up by opponents and by Finebaum vs me/us seeing YEARS of multiple issues with a well compensated and arrogant HC where I/we had FACTS to back up our criticism. She refused to go down that road but there was a Grand Slam waiting for me and I whiffed!!!

That hanging curveball was the FACT that every single one of my bannings (with the glaring exception of the DemocRAT post on Area 51) were based on me dissing Fulmer or just argueing with guys like RoadKill and KenDOLL about Fulmer. All of Birmy's handles have been banned in a similar exercise as have a HOST of other handles by posters now here and at other UT sites. But flip that around and we have Tennstud, LastLap, OffTackle, DADIO, PF4UT, Vol12, and a few others who never even let a RUMOR go by that disses a UT coach who is yet to coach a frickin game!!! How does Maria and the VC management explain this hypocrisy??? And how did I miss that hanging curve??? Duuuuh!!!!

[Polemicvol]

A dogfight with a lot of participants and everybody gets all mixed up. In a "furball" it's hard not to defend yourself against attacks and it's hard to focus on going on the offensive, cause you got so many people on your ass.

That's how Maria and her allies managed to distract you from the obvious. By attacking you about recruiting and moving you to a defensive mode. Sometimes it just takes someone not involved in the furball to point out the fallacy of your attacker's logic and their weak spot.

So you can go back on the offensive.

Maria's argument was a logical fallacy. It sounds right but isn't. She failed to include the larger picture and just focused on attacking you on what she framed as a hypocritical foible. But it was her framing that was faulty.

[SmokyTheBigOrangeHoundDog]

And that's how Totalitarianism rears it's ugly head.
Maria and Vol12 party like it's 1984.

[aadicof]

Maria and Vol12 party like it's 1984.

Hahahahaha!

[Polemicvol]

Authoritarianism is the predominate philosophy on Volchat. And a major reason why Vol12's heavy handed moderation is applauded.

Authoritarians love authority and universally cheer it's application. So bannings were seen as a great thing there. Even the capricious and unmerited bannings that occurred so frequently.

Group think is their other major malfunction. Which is an outgrowth of authoritarian suppression of dissent.

[Voluble2]

I don't totally disagree Poley.

A lot of this has to do with how information is couched as well. Stud could have said that Dan skipped the funeral because he is so committed to winning, or that the coaching staff is so gung-ho that they are loath to even let a guy off for a funeral. Same information but no damage is likely to occur.

But the best thing about rumors being aired on message boards is that the truth of the matter tends to get cleared up faster. If we really don't let players off except for their own funerals then recruits need to know that to make an informed decision and the fans need to know it to decide how they feel about their staff. Had we known of half the shenanigans Fulmer's crew pulled Urban Myer might be our coach right now since we would have pulled the trigger much earlier.

If a rumor is untrue then better it gets a full airing instead of being whispered from person to person where people with proper information can't combat it.

I have a business competitor who does that sort of thing and the biggest problem isn't shooting down the lies but figuring out which lies were told. Maybe that colors how I see things.

[englishvol]

Voluble2 why have you got Vol12 and Tennstudd as your avatar ? :ura1:

:brit::brit::brit:

[BrassVols]

Any engineer will tell you that negative feedback is important in any system that you don't want to blow the fuck up. Fulmer never received any negative feedback until it was too late and we can see where it got us.


LOL, good analogy. Fulmer's problem was he had to many poles in the right half plane, thus he blew the fuck up. Nyquist coulkd have predicted it. <that's not an ethnic joke if anyone's last name ends in "ski">.

Seriously though, Fulmer was too blind to the obvious to know any better. There WERE people telling him in the early 2000s he better fix his damn staff, but he blew them off. And I dont mean message board cowboys, I mean people that attempted to advise him.

[SoftballVol]

I've read most of the thread on Volchat regarding Tennstud and AV and Maria talks about how things posted on message boards hurt recruiting. I don't post on Volchat, so I thought I would bring some of that discussion here.

Maria says AV's objection to Tennstud's rumor posting about Kiffin et al and AV's crusade against the Fulmer regime are comparable, because both will hurt recruiting. AV tries to respond by saying he posted facts and TS posted rumors and lies. Which appears true enough, but I don't think it really properly addresses Maria's contention.

I would respond thus. Maria is creating a false equivalency between AV's criticism of the program and TS's criticism of the program, because she says both will hurt recruiting. While I don't concede that either will hurt recruiting, I can't prove that it doesn't. So let's just set that aside for a moment.

The false equivalency and false argument, isn't based upon the factual or truthful basis of the criticism. No, I would instead contend that as a supporter of Tennessee athletic, the reason that AV's criticism was justified and Tennstud's isn't, is solely because of the timing of said criticism. And this is where the entire Volchat community loses touch with reality.

AV didn't publicly criticize the Fulmer regime when he first took over the head coaching job. He waited until many years had passed and he perceived a slipping of standards and came to believe that a public airing of deficiencies was needed. In fact, AV was criticizing the PERFORMANCE of the Fulmer staff, not the personalities.

No such time has passed for the new Kiffin staff. To be fair in one's criticism of any one's performance, you must allow sufficient time to pass for someone to prove what they can accomplish. The Kiffin staff hasn't yet had that opportunity to prove themselves and we a loyal Volunteers owe them that chance.

It's not an issue of true or false, or hurting or not hurting recruiting. It's an issue of FAIRNESS. It was fair to criticize the Fulmer staff, at the time AV and other here began to do so. It's not fair to criticize the Kiffin staff in the same manner at present. That time will come, but not yet.

So, as Volunteers, we owe our loyalty, patience, and our closed lips until Kiffin et al has had time to prove themselves. Or we are not truly Vols and certainly we would be acting unfairly.
As I stated elsewhere, Fulmer's critics criticized him because he was losing games he should have won. Kiffin's critics can't criticize him for that yet but they're criticizing him anyway because he's not Fulmer. They would say that it's not personal and they're right in the sense that they would have criticized anyone else who had been hired instead of Kiffin and for the same reason. If Kiffin is fired and replaced by anyone other than Fulmer then they will criticize that person as well the same way they are criticizing CLK today. There is no equivalence whatsoever between the two camps. I'll even concede that public criticism hurts recruiting for the sake of argument but point out that what really hurt recruiting during the CPF years was his increasingly-obvious inability to coach a football team. His critics were essentially just pointing out the relatively-obvious and maybe some less-informed recruits who had somehow managed not to pay attention might have been given a reality check had they read such criticism. But that's ridiculous because if those recruits were recruited by anyone else then the rival recruiters would have pointed out the same facts that message board critics pointed out so there was no net harm done by criticizing CPF's lack of results on the message boards.

Making false claims about CLK's treatment of his players OTOH is a completely different story. We've seen numerous examples of this effort including the Super Bowl and related stories that seek to paint a picture of CLK as a Clintonian skirt-chaser; the two granny stories (both of whom lived in Memphis strangely enough); and then of course the infamous Will Overstreet (allegedly) comment/story. All of these stories are designed to make CLK and his staff look as if they lack character. They began to appear within weeks of CLK's arrival and none of the stories have addressed his coaching ability in any respect. Ironically every story we've seen from the athletes who have survived seem to be very consistent in that they talk about increased discipline, improved physical fitness, and a greatly-improved work ethic and sense of enthusiasm. The point being that the disconnect between what CLK's critics are saying and what his players are saying is huge. I suspect that the staff references that data anytime any recruits might cite one of the rumors.

[SoftballVol]

When Maria started equating the two I tried to do the "context" thing of Tennstud posting false rumors which were eaten up by opponents and by Finebaum vs me/us seeing YEARS of multiple issues with a well compensated and arrogant HC where I/we had FACTS to back up our criticism. She refused to go down that road but there was a Grand Slam waiting for me and I whiffed!!!

That hanging curveball was the FACT that every single one of my bannings (with the glaring exception of the DemocRAT post on Area 51) were based on me dissing Fulmer or just argueing with guys like RoadKill and KenDOLL about Fulmer. All of Birmy's handles have been banned in a similar exercise as have a HOST of other handles by posters now here and at other UT sites. But flip that around and we have Tennstud, LastLap, OffTackle, DADIO, PF4UT, Vol12, and a few others who never even let a RUMOR go by that disses a UT coach who is yet to coach a frickin game!!! How does Maria and the VC management explain this hypocrisy??? And how did I miss that hanging curve??? Duuuuh!!!!
AV, you, G, et al posted facts that were in themselves damning. W-L records, total offense stats, 3rd-and-long stats, records versus major rivals. These were all facts. It doesn't matter that such facts could hurt recruiting because whether you and others posted them you can be sure that rival recruiters would burn those facts into the skulls of recruits themselves. Had all message boards been shut down during the CPF years all the recruits who heard those facts would have still heard about them. Why? Because they were facts! Why don't people understand that poor performance cannot be ignored or to put it another way ignoring poor performance on a UT message board doesn't make the facts go away nor does it prevent recruits from learning those facts. OTOH, posting false and vicious rumors is a completely different thing. Sure, some unethical rivals could make up their own false rumors and no doubt some do. But to post a false rumor on a UT board, especially when done by one of the most prominent self-proclaimed and indeed infamous UT boosters is to give rivals a huge boost. Now they can "cite" the source of the rumor as a personal friend of the aggrieved party. Their is absolutely no equivalence between criticizing CPF for his poor on-field performance and claiming that the parent of a player basically said that CLK is a heartless SOB.

[LWSVOL]

I've read most of the thread on Volchat regarding Tennstud and AV and Maria talks about how things posted on message boards hurt recruiting. I don't post on Volchat, so I thought I would bring some of that discussion here.

Maria says AV's objection to Tennstud's rumor posting about Kiffin et al and AV's crusade against the Fulmer regime are comparable, because both will hurt recruiting. AV tries to respond by saying he posted facts and TS posted rumors and lies. Which appears true enough, but I don't think it really properly addresses Maria's contention.

I would respond thus. Maria is creating a false equivalency between AV's criticism of the program and TS's criticism of the program, because she says both will hurt recruiting. While I don't concede that either will hurt recruiting, I can't prove that it doesn't. So let's just set that aside for a moment.

The false equivalency and false argument, isn't based upon the factual or truthful basis of the criticism. No, I would instead contend that as a supporter of Tennessee athletic, the reason that AV's criticism was justified and Tennstud's isn't, is solely because of the timing of said criticism. And this is where the entire Volchat community loses touch with reality.

AV didn't publicly criticize the Fulmer regime when he first took over the head coaching job. He waited until many years had passed and he perceived a slipping of standards and came to believe that a public airing of deficiencies was needed. In fact, AV was criticizing the PERFORMANCE of the Fulmer staff, not the personalities.

No such time has passed for the new Kiffin staff. To be fair in one's criticism of any one's performance, you must allow sufficient time to pass for someone to prove what they can accomplish. The Kiffin staff hasn't yet had that opportunity to prove themselves and we a loyal Volunteers owe them that chance.

It's not an issue of true or false, or hurting or not hurting recruiting. It's an issue of FAIRNESS. It was fair to criticize the Fulmer staff, at the time AV and other here began to do so. It's not fair to criticize the Kiffin staff in the same manner at present. That time will come, but not yet.

So, as Volunteers, we owe our loyalty, patience, and our closed lips until Kiffin et al has had time to prove themselves. Or we are not truly Vols and certainly we would be acting unfairly.


previous coaching staff felt they affected recruiting. (thye received print outs from prospective recruits of message board statements frequently that recruits got from rivals recruiting same)

the current coaching staff feels they can affect recruiting.

both staffs did/do monitor message boards closely, very closely for "program impacts". I know people personally that have been called for things they have said on message boards...some called into offices of atheltic department personal.

[Chatta Vol]

4000 hits

Traffic.


although he's banned HERE, this is the same reason he ISNT banned there.