BrassVols
August 7th, 2009, 12:54 AM
PF4UT (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=PF4UT)
RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
<SNIP SNIP>
Please provide the examples of the CPF gaffes that you speak of. For my part, can think of no examples where the mistakes of CPF were as egregious as those of CLK. Please also note that I only mention CPF in response to your own CPF reference.
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USNAbigorange (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=USNAbigorange)
RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
I'm glad you asked...
Lying--When CPF appeared on the Paul Finebaum show (his last appearance) and said, "If I had a problem with anything Alabama was doing on the recruiting trail, I would just take it up with Alabama." Finebaum, "so you have no problems with anything Alabama is doing?" Fulmer, "no." Fulmer was a regular guest on the Finebaum show up until that point...but quit appearing after that exchange. This was as he was meeting with Tom Culpepper and his personal lawyer (no NCAA or SEC officials) at Thunder Thorton's Chattanooga home.
False accusations--as part of his secret case against Alabama, Fulmer alleged (based on half-baked information) that Kenny Smith's mother was having an affair with an Alabama assistant (how that, even if it were true, has any bearing on anything is beyond me). He also alleged that Shaun Alexander's church in Tuscaloosa was somehow funnelling money from Alabama boosters to S.A.
Embarassment--skipping SEC media days and basically validating the outrageous claims of the most ridiculous man on earth, Tommy Gallion, and become a laughingstock all over the South. Getting served with a subpoena at last year's media days.
--With all the Alabama case, before I get accused of sympathizing with the "Bammers," the model citizen was, IMO, Steve Spurrier who very vocally and "to their face" turned the Bammers in.
Dubious activity--tampering with a criminal witness by meeting in a Shoney's with his personal lawyer and interviewing (outside of any police presence) a potential victim alleging a sexual assault against one of his players.
Sidenote, I'm not providing links to this stuff...it's common knowledge and it's available for you to look up.
(http://mbd.scout.com/themes/scout2/post.aspx?s=7&f=1372&t=4565464&m=58493192"e=1)
VolAngel96 (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=VolAngel96)
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RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
Not to argue over words, but the statement about Meyer was either a vast over-exaggeration or lie. Same with Pahokee. Alshon Jeffrey statement (which CLK has denied to the point of calling this young man) is not a lie, nor would I be that shocked if it was that out of the ordinary.
"I just wish CLK would have been more flexible, but as a rookie CFB HC, I guess it's just another example of blooper-reel material."
This is interesting, because you question CLK. Was PF's recruiting (since PF has been brought up in this thread) blooper-reel material? Other than Boyd (if you want to argue he should be here), Fulmer left us in the roster mess that we are in. He signed many "great" classes on NSD, only to have many casualties. Just curious of your take on PF's roster decisions being blooper-reel material.
Also, disagree that CLK just told Boyd that because he thought he would have someone better in this class. Given that Boyd was coming off an ACL tear, CLK probably had other concerns.
Furthermore, Meyer didn't change his scheme that much. Go back and look at Leak and Tebow's combined carries. I did not look, but am willing to bet that the two of them averaged more than 10+ carries per game. I can understand you having the opinion that CLK shoud adapt, but it is just a matter of opinion. It is not "blooper-reel" material.
I say that because if you look at many high-profile skill players, they are buying in to the pro-style concept. IMO, that is why we have signed or have commitments from better skill position talent in less than a year under CLK than PF got enrolled from his last three classes.
Thanks for the civil discussion, even if we have very different views.
Edit - I am sure there are other things that have happened that I feel were not the best course of action, but just thinking of the two things that came to mind first.
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VolFran (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=VolFran)
RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
USNAbigorange wrote:
Embarassment--skipping SEC media days and basically validating the outrageous claims of the most ridiculous man on earth, Tommy Gallion, and become a laughingstock all over the South. Getting served with a subpoena at last year's media days.
Don't forget lying about getting served that subpoena.
(http://mbd.scout.com/themes/scout2/post.aspx?s=7&f=1372&t=4565464&m=58493530"e=1)
VolAngel96 (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=VolAngel96)
<SNIP>
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Mud Island Vol (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=Mud%20Island%20Vol)
RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
PF4UT wrote:
Please provide the examples of the CPF gaffes that you speak of. For my part, can think of no examples where the mistakes of CPF were as egregious as those of CLK. Please also note that I only mention CPF in response to your own CPF reference.Before providing the example you requested, I have to agree with others that the way you constantly criticize any of Coach Kiffin's gaffes, using only the most dramatic and extreme language in your diatribes (eg "barbaric, "inhumane", "uncivilized"), supports the opinion that you not only have an agenda against our current FB coach but also a very strong, almost pathological, dislike of him.
This opinion is further bolstered by the fact that you have never complimented him on his accomplishments. Namely, our FB team completed the Spring '09 semester with their highest cumulative GPA in nine semesters. Also, our FB players made it through the offseason with no embarrassing off the field incidents. Both of these accomplishments represent a very welcome departure from what had occurred, especially in more recent times, under the previous coaching staff. If you truly didn't have an agenda and were a true supporter of UT, you would, imo, be extolling these accomplishments with the same gusto that you've consistently demonstrated in denouncing the failures of this staff. Alas, this has not happened.
I mean, as a UT alum (I believe you stated you're an alumnus of UT?), aren't you pleased that our players have shown improvement in the classroom? After all, as student-athletes, they are (ostensibly) here to get an education. Aren't you pleased that the lawless offseason behavior has been greatly curtailed? Evidently not. You're too busy castigating Coach Kiffin and his staff for something (DW's grandmother) that has not yet been confirmed to be true.
Has Kiffin made some embarrassing gaffes? Absolutely. He should never have signed Daniel Hood, imo, as it will always be viewed as a win-at-all-costs move and there's very little chance that, overall, the good will outweigh the bad in that situation. It places my alma mater in a very poor light. And some of the comments he's made about opposing coaches have shown very little class or tact. I don't like that at all.
That said, Kiffin is not the only UT FB coach to embarrass my alma mater. Coach Majors did it, Coach Dickey did it, and, yes, Coach Fulmer embarrassed UT as well. But if we're honest about it, coaches are rarely fired for embarrassing their schools. They're almost always fired for not winning enough. This has always been the case at all D-1 FB programs. After all, if representing your school with class and integrity was the only requirement for a college FB coach to keep his job, UT would've never fired Bill Battle.
As for examples about Coach Fulmer, other posters have already provided you with some pertinent ones. I'll just add the Tony McDaniel case to the list. You know, the UT FB player who sucker-punched another UT student in the face during a pickup basketball game and broke four of the victim's bones in the process. The victim's jaw had to be wired shut to heal. Instead of kicking McDaniel off the team, Coach Fulmer just suspended him for two games. As a UT alum, that and numerous other examples of lawless offseason behavior by the FB team coupled with the lack of adequate punishment from Coach Fulmer and his coaching staff greatly embarrassed me. JMHO.
mefgovols (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=mefgovols)
http://media.scout.com/media/avatars/library/football.GIF
RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
And all of the arrests and DUI s that occured in the past few years. That is much more embarassing than the things Kiffin is accused/guilty of.
PF4UT, we all are awaitingyour agenda-free reply.
Can't wait til the next game!
RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
<SNIP SNIP>
Please provide the examples of the CPF gaffes that you speak of. For my part, can think of no examples where the mistakes of CPF were as egregious as those of CLK. Please also note that I only mention CPF in response to your own CPF reference.
(http://mbd.scout.com/themes/scout2/post.aspx?s=7&f=1372&t=4565464&m=58491684"e=1)
USNAbigorange (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=USNAbigorange)
RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
I'm glad you asked...
Lying--When CPF appeared on the Paul Finebaum show (his last appearance) and said, "If I had a problem with anything Alabama was doing on the recruiting trail, I would just take it up with Alabama." Finebaum, "so you have no problems with anything Alabama is doing?" Fulmer, "no." Fulmer was a regular guest on the Finebaum show up until that point...but quit appearing after that exchange. This was as he was meeting with Tom Culpepper and his personal lawyer (no NCAA or SEC officials) at Thunder Thorton's Chattanooga home.
False accusations--as part of his secret case against Alabama, Fulmer alleged (based on half-baked information) that Kenny Smith's mother was having an affair with an Alabama assistant (how that, even if it were true, has any bearing on anything is beyond me). He also alleged that Shaun Alexander's church in Tuscaloosa was somehow funnelling money from Alabama boosters to S.A.
Embarassment--skipping SEC media days and basically validating the outrageous claims of the most ridiculous man on earth, Tommy Gallion, and become a laughingstock all over the South. Getting served with a subpoena at last year's media days.
--With all the Alabama case, before I get accused of sympathizing with the "Bammers," the model citizen was, IMO, Steve Spurrier who very vocally and "to their face" turned the Bammers in.
Dubious activity--tampering with a criminal witness by meeting in a Shoney's with his personal lawyer and interviewing (outside of any police presence) a potential victim alleging a sexual assault against one of his players.
Sidenote, I'm not providing links to this stuff...it's common knowledge and it's available for you to look up.
(http://mbd.scout.com/themes/scout2/post.aspx?s=7&f=1372&t=4565464&m=58493192"e=1)
VolAngel96 (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=VolAngel96)
http://media.scout.com/media/forums/scout2/subscriberbadge.gif
RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
Not to argue over words, but the statement about Meyer was either a vast over-exaggeration or lie. Same with Pahokee. Alshon Jeffrey statement (which CLK has denied to the point of calling this young man) is not a lie, nor would I be that shocked if it was that out of the ordinary.
"I just wish CLK would have been more flexible, but as a rookie CFB HC, I guess it's just another example of blooper-reel material."
This is interesting, because you question CLK. Was PF's recruiting (since PF has been brought up in this thread) blooper-reel material? Other than Boyd (if you want to argue he should be here), Fulmer left us in the roster mess that we are in. He signed many "great" classes on NSD, only to have many casualties. Just curious of your take on PF's roster decisions being blooper-reel material.
Also, disagree that CLK just told Boyd that because he thought he would have someone better in this class. Given that Boyd was coming off an ACL tear, CLK probably had other concerns.
Furthermore, Meyer didn't change his scheme that much. Go back and look at Leak and Tebow's combined carries. I did not look, but am willing to bet that the two of them averaged more than 10+ carries per game. I can understand you having the opinion that CLK shoud adapt, but it is just a matter of opinion. It is not "blooper-reel" material.
I say that because if you look at many high-profile skill players, they are buying in to the pro-style concept. IMO, that is why we have signed or have commitments from better skill position talent in less than a year under CLK than PF got enrolled from his last three classes.
Thanks for the civil discussion, even if we have very different views.
Edit - I am sure there are other things that have happened that I feel were not the best course of action, but just thinking of the two things that came to mind first.
(http://mbd.scout.com/themes/scout2/post.aspx?s=7&f=1372&t=4565464&m=58493497"e=1)
VolFran (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=VolFran)
RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
USNAbigorange wrote:
Embarassment--skipping SEC media days and basically validating the outrageous claims of the most ridiculous man on earth, Tommy Gallion, and become a laughingstock all over the South. Getting served with a subpoena at last year's media days.
Don't forget lying about getting served that subpoena.
(http://mbd.scout.com/themes/scout2/post.aspx?s=7&f=1372&t=4565464&m=58493530"e=1)
VolAngel96 (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=VolAngel96)
<SNIP>
(http://mbd.scout.com/themes/scout2/post.aspx?s=7&f=1372&t=4565464&m=58493924"e=1)
Mud Island Vol (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=Mud%20Island%20Vol)
RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
PF4UT wrote:
Please provide the examples of the CPF gaffes that you speak of. For my part, can think of no examples where the mistakes of CPF were as egregious as those of CLK. Please also note that I only mention CPF in response to your own CPF reference.Before providing the example you requested, I have to agree with others that the way you constantly criticize any of Coach Kiffin's gaffes, using only the most dramatic and extreme language in your diatribes (eg "barbaric, "inhumane", "uncivilized"), supports the opinion that you not only have an agenda against our current FB coach but also a very strong, almost pathological, dislike of him.
This opinion is further bolstered by the fact that you have never complimented him on his accomplishments. Namely, our FB team completed the Spring '09 semester with their highest cumulative GPA in nine semesters. Also, our FB players made it through the offseason with no embarrassing off the field incidents. Both of these accomplishments represent a very welcome departure from what had occurred, especially in more recent times, under the previous coaching staff. If you truly didn't have an agenda and were a true supporter of UT, you would, imo, be extolling these accomplishments with the same gusto that you've consistently demonstrated in denouncing the failures of this staff. Alas, this has not happened.
I mean, as a UT alum (I believe you stated you're an alumnus of UT?), aren't you pleased that our players have shown improvement in the classroom? After all, as student-athletes, they are (ostensibly) here to get an education. Aren't you pleased that the lawless offseason behavior has been greatly curtailed? Evidently not. You're too busy castigating Coach Kiffin and his staff for something (DW's grandmother) that has not yet been confirmed to be true.
Has Kiffin made some embarrassing gaffes? Absolutely. He should never have signed Daniel Hood, imo, as it will always be viewed as a win-at-all-costs move and there's very little chance that, overall, the good will outweigh the bad in that situation. It places my alma mater in a very poor light. And some of the comments he's made about opposing coaches have shown very little class or tact. I don't like that at all.
That said, Kiffin is not the only UT FB coach to embarrass my alma mater. Coach Majors did it, Coach Dickey did it, and, yes, Coach Fulmer embarrassed UT as well. But if we're honest about it, coaches are rarely fired for embarrassing their schools. They're almost always fired for not winning enough. This has always been the case at all D-1 FB programs. After all, if representing your school with class and integrity was the only requirement for a college FB coach to keep his job, UT would've never fired Bill Battle.
As for examples about Coach Fulmer, other posters have already provided you with some pertinent ones. I'll just add the Tony McDaniel case to the list. You know, the UT FB player who sucker-punched another UT student in the face during a pickup basketball game and broke four of the victim's bones in the process. The victim's jaw had to be wired shut to heal. Instead of kicking McDaniel off the team, Coach Fulmer just suspended him for two games. As a UT alum, that and numerous other examples of lawless offseason behavior by the FB team coupled with the lack of adequate punishment from Coach Fulmer and his coaching staff greatly embarrassed me. JMHO.
mefgovols (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&up=mefgovols)
http://media.scout.com/media/avatars/library/football.GIF
RE: Revisiting the BJ Coleman issue
And all of the arrests and DUI s that occured in the past few years. That is much more embarassing than the things Kiffin is accused/guilty of.
PF4UT, we all are awaitingyour agenda-free reply.
Can't wait til the next game!