Help-Tee Shots

[Stoli]

I am a relatively new golfer. I am in my mid 40s and never played or even went to a driving range until a couple of years ago. I think if one is going to play golf it would be best to start with good instruction in the teens or earlier.

Anyway my game is pretty sad but it has improved significantly from where I started a couple of years ago. My putting has improved, my short game has improved, and I can hit irons in the fairway better. I played a local nine hole par 3 course today and made par on three holes, had a bogey on 5 holes, and a double bogey on one hole (or plus 7 for the 9 holes). I know that does not sound impressive but it is a sign of improvement for me. My short game has improved since I started playing and I think it can be better with more practice and experience.

My biggest problem is the opposite of what most golfers seem to have. I cannot hit tee shots with drivers, woods, hybrids, long irons, etc. with any consistency or distance. I do OK with most Par 3s because I will usually be using something anywhere from a 5 iron to a 9 iron depending on distance. For par 4s and 5s I have tried a driver, a 3 wood, 5 wood, hybrid, 1 iron and 2 iron. I do not have consistent distance or success with any of them but the 3 wood or 2 iron are usually my best bet. If I could just consistently get off the tee at 180-200 yards in the fairway it would probably take 10 or more strokes off of my game.

The stuff that often happen off the tee include.

1. A mishit off the nose or hosel.
2. A decently hit ball that slices out of play or into the rough. The ball is probably hit solidly enough to be a good shot if it did not slice.
3. A straight but short skyball that looks like a pitch with a 9 iron or PW.
4. A really nasty shot where the club hits the ground before making contact with the ball.

I took lessons last summer and they helped with my iron play and short game but we did not work with tee shots for drivers, long irons, etc. I can hit a 3 iron pretty good off grass on the fairway. I think I do well with this club because I am making so many recovery shots after a disaster off the tee.

My swing from the 3 iron on to the short irons must be OK as I can often hit the green from the tee or roll or bounce on to it on par threes. The 3 iron cleans up the mess I make off the tee on the long holes.

Some times in feels like I lose balance with the drivers and long clubs and other times the swing feels good and misses the mark. At other times I hit a shot that feels solid and looks good initially and then the slice kicks in. I am so bad off of the tee that I have started choking up on a 3 wood and taking a partial swing to just get off the tee.

Gentlemen my tee shot is a wreck, how can I fix it?

[Lick_My_Vols]

Easy. Go out to your garage, grab your driver, and break it over your knee. That way you won't be tempted to hit it. Next time you go to the course, grab that 3 iron out of the bag and use it off of the tee box. No shame in hitting an iron off the tees. Most par 4's on your average public course aren't long enough where you are going to be penalizing yourself. I've had many bad days with the driver and have actually used as low as an 8 iron off the tee box (short par 4 around 320 yds).

[Stoli]

I have been tempted to do just that. At Laurel Valley I often use the 2 or 3 iron to tee off with. The tight fairways on some of those holes will get you in trouble quickly if you hit a pull or slice.

[TREX]

Answer.

Shawn Clements videos on YouTube.

Pay $50 to get his set of videos if you like and learn the fundementals.

My guess is your hand/eye coordination is pretty good whinch gets you by with the shorter clubs.

No reason the average person cant hit a 3 wood 210 and a driver 230 and fairly straight.

[semcclarin]

Answer...plain and simple...go to your local pro and get a lesson or two....its worth the money if you want to play good golf......use a 3 wood or 5 wood until you get to where you can hit a driver.... hitting 7-8 irons into greens are alot more fun than hitting 3-4 irons....

tnphil

[Stoli]

Good points guys. The lessons I took last summer did help significantly with the irons and short stuff. It took a while to see improvement as all of the changes were overwhelming initially. I was a nervous wreck with any club for a while. He changed my grip, stance, footwork (he did not like my footwork at all), and swing. He preached the same basic concepts as the Shawn Clement You Tube Videos.

[Napervol]

1- stand in front of a mirror, arms should be hanging straight down to the ground. Most tour players have arms directly straight down to the ground.
2- stick your butt out, this helps accomplish number one.
3- cock your wrists to get the clubhead into the correct position instead of reaching out with the arms. Back to number one.
4- straight left arm, basically to accomodate number one.
5- stand closer to the ball (maybe) to accomodate number one.

Get that much done while holding the club in your fingers, not your palms. Posture and grip are the starting points of the game. There are all sorts of other variations...but it sounds like fundementals would help. I agree with getting videos and then maybe adding a lesson where you can see your swing, Goftec comes to mind.

[wheelbilly]

Easy. Go out to your garage, grab your driver, and break it over your knee. That way you won't be tempted to hit it.

Good advice. The best round I ever shot, I was hitting the 2-iron pretty good and never took a wood out of may bag. I am not, and never was anything close to a scratch golfer. For those of us who realistically will never break par, it's better to concentrate on the short game.

And I have never felt like a wuss because I used a 3-iron and a 5-iron to get to the green on a medium length par 4, while my buddies hit a driver and a wedge shot. Same result either way, and a lot less chance of something going amiss.

[Stoli]

Good advice. The best round I ever shot, I was hitting the 2-iron pretty good and never took a wood out of may bag. I am not, and never was anything close to a scratch golfer. For those of us who realistically will never break par, it's better to concentrate on the short game.

And I have never felt like a wuss because I used a 3-iron and a 5-iron to get to the green on a medium length par 4, while my buddies hit a driver and a wedge shot. Same result either way, and a lot less chance of something going amiss.

Wheelbilly (great user name by the way-is there a story behind it?)

I have not played long enough with the woods (really graphite fishing poles with toasters on the end) to chuck them off of the tee because if I could just consistently get off the tee in play at 180-200 I could maintain or improve the rest of my game (hopefully). I play with a Tommy Armour 855s that feels heavy as a sledgehammer at times. I do not hit it any place other than the tee. I took all of the woods out of my bag during the late fall, winter, and early spring, and just recently started swinging the woods again. If I hit my best shot, the 2 iron will go longer than almost anything that I hit with woods. The ball seems to stay a little lower and makes for a hotter line drive type of shot with less slice and/or fade. With that said, I have to be loose and swinging well to play that club or bad things happen.

If I could hit my best shot with a 2 iron consistently I would probably just play with it and forget the woods. I have thought about having the 2 iron re-shafted with a graphite. I would love to try other clubs out here and there but opportunities are limited for lefties.

[Stoli]

1- stand in front of a mirror, arms should be hanging straight down to the ground. Most tour players have arms directly straight down to the ground.
2- stick your butt out, this helps accomplish number one.
3- cock your wrists to get the clubhead into the correct position instead of reaching out with the arms. Back to number one.
4- straight left arm, basically to accomodate number one.
5- stand closer to the ball (maybe) to accomodate number one.

Get that much done while holding the club in your fingers, not your palms. Posture and grip are the starting points of the game. There are all sorts of other variations...but it sounds like fundementals would help. I agree with getting videos and then maybe adding a lesson where you can see your swing, Goftec comes to mind.


Good points, everything that you suggest is the same thing the pro said (except he really wore my footwork out for good reason). I played one of my best rounds of golf this weekend (which ain't saying much) but my short game was pretty good. Yes, the fundamentals would help along with practice. My tee shots were high but better than usual. Standing closer to the ball, or at least aligning to the ball differently seems to help as well. It is probably just mental but I seem to hit a better shot if I align at what looks like something between the hosel and sweet spot. The wrist-cock thing is difficult for me. If I think about it and concentrate on it I make a jerky movement and lose balance. If I do not think about it and concentrate on the setup and try not to think about the rest of it I seem to do better.

With the woods and long irons it seems that I hit my best balls when I swing with my body. I can't really describe it or know exactly what it looks like but when I do it well I hit a high 150-165 shot with a five iron and a 170 plus shot with a 3 iron. It feels almost like an effortless shot. Golf is a weird game.:canada:

[Chiutfan]

Get lessons, yes best advice. I happen to live near a pro, who used to post here, and on a bet he took me as a pro bono client. Dogballs, fixed my swing, got me to be more confident and yesterday, I shot my first 18 of the year, and hit an 88! I used to spray tee shots all over the place, yesterday, I hit the fairways, more often that I missed, and when I did miss, it was in areas, easily recovered from. I have chances at several birdies, but settled for par on all of them. As my game knocks off the rust, I expect to hit much better.

Find a pro who can take his time and show you not only
whats wrong, but how to improve you whole game.

I'd say lessons were the best investment I ever made. but Id make sure the pro teaching you has some pretty solid credentials to back it up.

[Lick_My_Vols]

I have been tempted to do just that. At Laurel Valley I often use the 2 or 3 iron to tee off with. The tight fairways on some of those holes will get you in trouble quickly if you hit a pull or slice.

Is the first hole @ Laurel the Par 5 where you are hitting a blind tee shot thru a shoot that looks no wider than my laundry room with a small little creek (or drainage ditch) alongside the fairway that you always forget is there? Damn I hate that hole!!!

[Stoli]

Both 1 and 3 are Par five. I think 3 may be the one you are thinking of. The Tee box is backed up to a road and you have a pond/swampy area and creek along the right along with some very high weeds/undergrowth in summer. On the left there is a ditch and a small maintenance building (people wear that maintenace bulding out off of the tee). When the weeds get high, you have a very narrow spot to get out of there if you do not get the ball up quick. Even if you get out, a pull or slice can easily put you in the creek on the right or the ditch or woods on the left. You can even hit a decent shot out of there and get on the cart path and end up in the rough or the woods. Bad things happen on that hole and you do not see many people play without getting one or more penalty strokes somewhere along the way. I would say 3 and the 6th hole (par 4) are the toughest for me on that course.

The first hole is narrow as well and can be really tricky depending on where the tees are set. On this hole you have woods on the right and a steep bank on the left. If you are going to play into trouble on this hole it is best to err to the left. Often times, even if get on the bank the ball will kick back across the cart path and into the fairway.

[BANG]

One thing to think about Stoli, I noticed in the "what's in your bag?" thread you have quite different assortment of clubs. IF your lie-angle varies much with these clubs it can affect your swing results BIT TIME! Just something else to consider.

[BrassVols]

A few swing tips that help me when my driver gets out of line (which is often):

1. Like Naper said, grip is critical, should hold the club loosely in your fingers.
2. Sometimes high HCers think they have to tense up and swing super hard to hit their driver. Not so, you want your shoulders, arms and hands relaxed, think of swinging a weight in a circle on the end of a rope. You're trying to get the club head to act like the end of a bull whip.
3. Make sure when you take the club away, that you rotate your upper torso and shoulders as you take the club away, and try to get a 90 degree shoulder turn before you start your downswing. Also think of keeping your spine, neck & head stationary during backswing and downswing. You should feel like you're rotating about the axis defined by your spine.
4. Think of a move or trigger to start your downswing. I like to start the move in my lower body to get more power. For example, think of pushing off your back foot to start weight transfer towards forward foot. Then just let the your hands drop and lower and upper body uncoil. Ideally you should uncoil from lower body up...1st hips, then torso, then shoudlers then arms. That's how to get the bullwhip effect.
5. Key point is that you do NOT use your arms to swing the club down at the ball, your uncoiling lower and upper body should "pull" the club through the hitting zone. A good swingthought is that your left side should be pulling the club through the hitting zone.
6. Keep your wrists cocked (90 degree angle between left forearm & shaft) as long as possible during downswing.
7. To get better contact you have to ensure the club face is square when it strikes the ball and that it's not on a slice (outside-in) or hook (inside-out) path relative to the target line. I find the best way to ensure the latter is to make a full shoulder turn, and the best way to ensure the former is to think of getting the back of your left hand back to the same orientation it was when you started your takeaway. One swing thought I read in a golf magazine I thought was very helpful on this last point was to imagine there's a tee attached to the back of your left hand, pointy end pointing out perpindicularly. When the clubface hits the back of the ball that tee should be pointing right down the target line.

[Stoli]

I have been to the driving range a few times and am working on this and getting a little better. The tension and looser grip seem to be helping. I think the tension and tight grip were causing my swing to be jerky and lose balance in the backswing. I also watched a David Leadbetter video where he did some stuff to get you to start your takeaway with the body rather than the arms and that seems to help as well.

I played nine holes last night and actually used the driver on the course for the first time in a long time. Hit some good shots and some slices but was able to stay in play and at least got off the tee consistently. I am going to keep practicing and look at getting a lesson on working with the 3 wood and driver.

[Athenian]

Go to the library and check out Ben Hogan's "Five Lessons - The Modern Fundamentals of Golf". Read it and study the pictures. Practice the grip, stance and swing plane in front of a mirror. Practice the lessons over and over. Take the images with you to the practice tee.

Lou Graham, a U. S. Open Champion learned to play golf this way. It can't do anything but help you.

[Chatta Vol]

.....that has a swing simulator and hit a square driver (Nike Sumo, Callaway FTi....)

You know what, screw that, just go buy one off Ebay, take that bitch to the range and never look back.

I promise you will be amazed at how straight it hits. If you you aren't 100% satisfied, I'll give you ur money back. (ok, well that last part was BS but.....)

I'm a hacker myself, shoot about 90ish and before i got my Nike Sumo2 i had given up on my driver cause it was SOOOO frustrating i gave up and just starting hitting 3w of the tee with only slightly better results. Then I found the Sumo! It's now my fave club in the bag, next to my Clevaland lob wedge, which i feel like i can stick it every time. My driver was in y trunk and now it's my fave club!

The power of the square.

[TREX]

The new drivers are so much better. I had a 1995 vintage driver but last year I decided to play a little and bought a oversized driver. I cracked it in a coupla months and Dude at Golfsmith upgraded me to nicer driver. Took it to the driving range and Holy Crap I was killing the ball. The confidence of the big head is the thing. Also it was my first graphite shaft.

UOTE=Chatta Vol;22000].....that has a swing simulator and hit a square driver (Nike Sumo, Callaway FTi....)

You know what, screw that, just go buy one off Ebay, take that bitch to the range and never look back.

I promise you will be amazed at how straight it hits. If you you aren't 100% satisfied, I'll give you ur money back. (ok, well that last part was BS but.....)

I'm a hacker myself, shoot about 90ish and before i got my Nike Sumo2 i had given up on my driver cause it was SOOOO frustrating i gave up and just starting hitting 3w of the tee with only slightly better results. Then I found the Sumo! It's now my fave club in the bag, next to my Clevaland lob wedge, which i feel like i can stick it every time. My driver was in y trunk and now it's my fave club!

The power of the square.[/QUOTE]

[Stoli]

I had wondered about the big fat albert looking drivers. I see people pounding the ball with those things but have never known whether it was the club or the user.

[Gravedigger]

#1- Make sure you have a 460cc driver. The size alone should make this the easiest club to hit.
#2- Choke down on it anywhere from 2-4'' ala A Kim. This will help you control the club more.
#3- Shorten your backswing. Take your hands back to the 9-10:00 position. This will give you a better change to come from the inside. If you are taking this club back behind you ears you are never going to hit it well
#4- Do all of these steps and try to hit 100 yards shots with your driver. Once you got the tempo down, stretch it out to 150 yards, then let it crank.
Try this as well.
It sounds like you are not coming from the inside if you are slicing the ball.
Set up two balls in a row and aim for the one on the inside
O
O-Hit this one

This will help you if you hit it on the heel alot as well. This drill has helped me get rid of the shanks before.

[Stoli]

Gravedigger

Suggestion 2 and 3 have helped some as I have been practicing that with a 3 wood. Using a 3/4 or so swing seems to help a lot with making more consistent contact. It seems that the 460CC clubs are the consensus. Does anyone suggest a particular model or brand? Also, how much difference (performance wise) is there in buying say a 2009 model 460CC Callaway Diablo, Nike, etc. as opposed to buying a model that is used and a couple of years old (like say the Callway 2007 Big Bertha)? In looking at prices on Ebay and the online retailers, you can probably save $100-$200 going that route (at least for leftys). At this point cosmetics do not matter to me so long as the club is effective.

[Tnphil]

Gravedigger

Suggestion 2 and 3 have helped some as I have been practicing that with a 3 wood. Using a 3/4 or so swing seems to help a lot with making more consistent contact. It seems that the 460CC clubs are the consensus. Does anyone suggest a particular model or brand? Also, how much difference (performance wise) is there in buying say a 2009 model 460CC Callaway Diablo, Nike, etc. as opposed to buying a model that is used and a couple of years old (like say the Callway 2007 Big Bertha)? In looking at prices on Ebay and the online retailers, you can probably save $100-$200 going that route (at least for leftys). At this point cosmetics do not matter to me so long as the club is effective.

I still use my Taylor Made driver that's 6 years old....its been the best driver i have ever had and would not trade for anything....at this time anyway..lol

[Stoli]

Ladies and Gentlemen (as applicable)

I want to thank each and every one of you for your advice and tips. My golf problems have not been solved in a month or two but I hope that I am on the road to better days. First off, I played (walked with a push cart) 45 holes yesterday and shot rounds ranging 103-110. Yes I know that sucks by most of your standards. I can't hit a 5 iron 250 yards and probably never will unless I get one helluva an assist from a cart path.

I considered much advice and took most of it. Without mentioning names, I did the following things.

1. Relaxed the grip (thanks) and upper body.

2. Practiced a bunch on the driving range.

2. Worked on a smooth and easy swing.

3. Lined the ball up further in the stance

4. Set the tee up higher.

5. Bought one of those 460 cc monsters (hey, hey, hey, it's Fat Albert) and a Big Bertha 3 wood. I bought a used Ping G2 for $50 and a used 2007 Big Bertha 3 wood for $35 at Edwin Watts. I went over to their store and hit every used left hand driver in my price range and this one seemed to be the most consistent so far as contact. I wish someone would have told me about these things 2 years ago. It is just about impossible to miss a ball off of the tee. The driver that I had tried to hit previously is actually about the size of the 2007 Callaway 3 wood. The weighting and forgiveness is completely different. I can't hit this thing any further than I hit the old off brand driver but the difference is that I get off of the tee and in play usually 150-190 yards, IN PLAY, in the fairway or rough. I hit only three balls out of play (2 on the same holes scattered over 45 holes). The Ping violates all sorts of noise ordinances and the shots are usually high and just flop when they land. However, that is significant progress for me.

Many of you have suggested lessons and I know this is a good thing. Lessons took me from shooting in the 130s to shooting in the 120s, 1teens, and under 110. I want to do another lesson but I want to play a little more to define exactly what my goals are.

Trying to learn to play Golf in your 40s is, I think, like trying to learn how to ride a bicycle in your 40s. If you have children, teach them how to play while they are young. It will save them much frustration later in life. :baby:

[BANG]

It's good to hear your progressing! Golf is as much a mental game as it is physical, the more you learn about the swing the better off you'll be in the long run. Keep up the good work, wish I was playing as much as you are right now.

[Chiutfan]

Golf digest has a good story on how to hit the ball square every time... Its a good read.