We're fooked

[Nation]

My sources are telling me that there will be numerous arrests and charges before this shit is over.

We may not have ONE DT when everything is said and done.

We had a chance to have a decent team this season but it's by Gawd over now.

[GoBigOrangutan]

I for one hope something good comes of it.

1. Gives Dooley a chance to cull the herd. We were going to struggle anyway.

2. The KPD has had a hard-on for something like this. Maybe after they fry a few football players, they can put their dicks up and actually try to help the university get control of the situation.

3. Sends a message to those who remain. Fuck up and you're gone.

4. Closes Bar Knoxville for good and makes it harder for other underage drinking establishments to crop up so close to campus.

5. Gives Dooley a chance to show he is a man of action, character, and discipline, which eventually turns the tide in recruiting.

[Tnphil]

Damn Nation......Sounds like AV has finally gotten to you...

[BrassVols]

I don't see what the problem is. We just need to score TDs on every possession and stop them once.

[Nation]

No just what I've been hearing. And Orangautan is exactly right. Hopefully the moe-rons that are UT fans will give Dooley enough time to do what must be done.

The culture MUST be changed around here, and Dooley is the PERFECT man to do it. He just needs time.

[Nation]

No matter what my post count says Brassy I have lots more than you do.

Get over it.

[BrassVols]

WTF?

[gatewayghost]

I think some of you are making a far too big of a deal out of Bar Knoxville. If they close it down, trouble will just happen somewhere else. Closing down Bar Knoxville is not an ending solution to this I promise you.

[IndianVol]

I hate the off season

[Tnphil]

No just what I've been hearing. And Orangautan is exactly right. Hopefully the moe-rons that are UT fans will give Dooley enough time to do what must be done.

The culture MUST be changed around here, and Dooley is the PERFECT man to do it. He just needs time.

I agree 100% with your statement....anyone that does not know the shape we have been in the past 5-6 years and the THUGS we have, and had, are to stupid to breathe...

[Tnphil]

I hate the off season

In a way I agree IV...but the way things have been lately, this shit happens in season as well....

[SoftballVol]

I hate the off season
For the past few years I've hated the in season.

[Vol-in-Atl]

I'd love to know what exactly distinguishes our "rotten culture" from every other culture on campuses like ours that include a group of barely educated prima donna's among players like Reveiz, Walker, et al. I'm not ready to pin this on any particular coach because it seems to happen no matter who is at the helm. Hell, one of Majors' players walked up to a fraternity party and stabbed some kid to death in front of a group of people. That little episode put us on 20/20. Imagine if there was Internet and ESPN in '88 when it happened.

If anybody has any concrete theories about how our culture differs from the other schools of our size and stature I'm all ears.

[gatewayghost]

I'd love to know what exactly distinguishes our "rotten culture" from every other culture on campuses like ours that include a group of barely educated prima donna's among players like Reveiz, Walker, et al. I'm not ready to pin this on any particular coach because it seems to happen no matter who is at the helm. Hell, one of Majors' players walked up to a fraternity party and stabbed some kid to death in front of a group of people. That little episode put us on 20/20. Imagine if there was Internet and ESPN in '88 when it happened.

If anybody has any concrete theories about how our culture differs from the other schools of our size and stature I'm all ears.

I forgot all about that. I remember watching that 20/20 episode. They made his highlights look like he was an all american and he really never done jack. What was his name?

[Vol-in-Atl]

John Rollins. He was a back up TE.

[IndianVol]

For the past few years I've hated the in season.

hated both... when does basketball start?

[bluetick]

John Rollins didn't actually stab the fraternity kid, though. His compadre he accompanied to the frat house that night, Jeff Underwood, was convicted of second degree murder.

[HAWKVOL]

......was it Over when the German's Bombed Pearl Harbor???!!.....I don't think so.

Hang in there LON....you got nuthin' better to do.

[green hills vol]

I'd love to know what exactly distinguishes our "rotten culture" from every other culture on campuses like ours that include a group of barely educated prima donna's among players like Reveiz, Walker, et al. I'm not ready to pin this on any particular coach because it seems to happen no matter who is at the helm. Hell, one of Majors' players walked up to a fraternity party and stabbed some kid to death in front of a group of people. That little episode put us on 20/20. Imagine if there was Internet and ESPN in '88 when it happened.

If anybody has any concrete theories about how our culture differs from the other schools of our size and stature I'm all ears.

I was discussing this very thing with a buddy of mine last Friday when all this shit went down. I really do believe there is something about Knoxville that is a huge contributing factor to all of the nonsense we have seen over the years. There is something about maybe some element of the community, the hanger-ons, or SOMETHING. I don't know what it is. But its something that isn't present in Athens or Baton Rouge or Tuscaloosa. Not that those schools don't have their incidents as well. But it really seems like we have more than our share.

He brought up a perfect example. What the hell is Ramar Smith still doing in Knoxville? He's from Detroit. He was booted from the hoops team two yrs ago. WTF? What is it about Knoxville that is keeping him there??

It seems that it doesn't matter who the coach is, what the policies are whatever. Like we all say, all schools recruit the same players. Knoxville is the only constant.

[Vol-in-Atl]

You're right, my mistake it was his sidekick who did the stabbin. But if it happened nowadays? Good god, people would've gone apeshit.

[Student Radical]

Did this occur at the Phi Kappa Tau house on Lake Blvd?

[Vol-in-Atl]

Yes.

[Niblick]

I was discussing this very thing with a buddy of mine last Friday when all this shit went down. I really do believe there is something about Knoxville that is a huge contributing factor to all of the nonsense we have seen over the years. There is something about maybe some element of the community, the hanger-ons, or SOMETHING. I don't know what it is. But its something that isn't present in Athens or Baton Rouge or Tuscaloosa. Not that those schools don't have their incidents as well. But it really seems like we have more than our share.

He brought up a perfect example. What the hell is Ramar Smith still doing in Knoxville? He's from Detroit. He was booted from the hoops team two yrs ago. WTF? What is it about Knoxville that is keeping him there??

It seems that it doesn't matter who the coach is, what the policies are whatever. Like we all say, all schools recruit the same players. Knoxville is the only constant.

I have thought about that in the past, and thought about it a lot last year specifically with Mike Edwards. The only thing I can come up with is that Knoxville is the perfect place for kids with D1 talent to get away and play at a D1 school, and at the same time be on a campus/in a town just big enough to provide some form of entertainment/limelight, but at the same time is, in all reality, out in the middle of no where/podunk and they will feel like the big fish in a small pond/big man on campus.

just a thought, but your question is completely understandable. I have wondered the exact same thing for years. I understood kids in trouble under Fulmer, he was a complete bafoon nad it's not hard to see where the lack of respect would come from. I understood the kids in trouible under kiffin, thats like putting a 4 yr old in charge of the cookie jar. But kids in trouble under Dooley, and in the summer when campus is relatively dead is just plain dumb.

The other thing to support the theory would be the kids in trouble themselves. If you looked at every kid that was in trouble for UT football over the last 20 years, I can almost promise you the majority of them would have things in common.

- they had multiple offers from various D1 schools
and
- they were from out of state

yet they choose UT. There has to be a common thread with the majority of them why they chose UT when the majority of kids from any state in the country, if given equal opportunity, would choose to play closer to home.

[LeonVol]

I was discussing this very thing with a buddy of mine last Friday when all this shit went down. I really do believe there is something about Knoxville that is a huge contributing factor to all of the nonsense we have seen over the years. There is something about maybe some element of the community, the hanger-ons, or SOMETHING. I don't know what it is. But its something that isn't present in Athens or Baton Rouge or Tuscaloosa. Not that those schools don't have their incidents as well. But it really seems like we have more than our share.

He brought up a perfect example. What the hell is Ramar Smith still doing in Knoxville? He's from Detroit. He was booted from the hoops team two yrs ago. WTF? What is it about Knoxville that is keeping him there??

It seems that it doesn't matter who the coach is, what the policies are whatever. Like we all say, all schools recruit the same players. Knoxville is the only constant.

Well for Ramar in particular he is from detroit! There ain't shit to go back to there. I have had a theory about knoxville for a while. For one it is one of the larger SEC towns. I don't count Nashville because the Vandy players are already screened a little better than the competitive teams.

Knoxville also has a LOT of drugs in it. LOTS. Knoxville is at the cross-section of major interstate systems and is ripe for drug trafficking. Hell the revival of market square was funded almost primarily by weed money... when the owner of Preservation Pub and all those other places down there was arrested and the government was trying to seize all of his assets Knoxville stepped in and pretty much said no way.

The only towns that are close in size are Gainesville, Columbia and Baton Rouge. I would guess that a lot of florida hanger-ons just go to jacksonville, which provides an environment similar to atlanta or memphis. Columbia has its troubles but their average recruit is still closer to home. This probably means they go back to their small town. Baton Rouge attracts a lot of kids from super small south Louisiana towns that are pretty close so they too probably just go home.

At UT we recruit nationally more than a lot of SEC schools. When you get a kid from across the country their entire base of support is created in Knoxville. They no longer have connections in detroit or wherever. Plus there is a large enough urban culture surrounding knoxville that if you want to make money dealing or running drugs its easy to do.

This all has nothing to do with why are players are so idiotic when they are sitll on the team.

[green hills vol]

I have thought about that in the past, and thought about it a lot last year specifically with Mike Edwards. The only thing I can come up with is that Knoxville is the perfect place for kids with D1 talent to get away and play at a D1 school, and at the same time be on a campus/in a town just big enough to provide some form of entertainment/limelight, but at the same time is, in all reality, out in the middle of no where/podunk and they will feel like the big fish in a small pond/big man on campus.

just a thought, but your question is completely understandable. I have wondered the exact same thing for years. I understood kids in trouble under Fulmer, he was a complete bafoon nad it's not hard to see where the lack of respect would come from. I understood the kids in trouible under kiffin, thats like putting a 4 yr old in charge of the cookie jar. But kids in trouble under Dooley, and in the summer when campus is relatively dead is just plain dumb.

The other thing to support the theory would be the kids in trouble themselves. If you looked at every kid that was in trouble for UT football over the last 20 years, I can almost promise you the majority of them would have things in common.

- they had multiple offers from various D1 schools
and
- they were from out of state

yet they choose UT. There has to be a common thread with the majority of them why they chose UT when the majority of kids from any state in the country, if given equal opportunity, would choose to play closer to home.

Those are two excellent points. I agree and have thought about Knoxville's size / football obsession combination. Its big enough that there plenty of opportunities to get in trouble as well as the population pool to ensure there are plenty of knuckleheads / star fuck*^rs around. Combine that with the big fish little pond factor. They are the rock stars of the community for lack of a better term.

So then why don't you see the same things in say Austin or Columbus? Of course those towns are much larger than Knoxville. But I think here is where your excellent point about the out of state player comes into play. You're right. Its not hard to believe that there is some common trait among the guys that could go to State U but decide to leave and come to Knoxville.

Off the top of my head, how many trouble makers were out of state?

Myles - GA
Nukeese, Edwards, Janzen - FLA, OH, LA
Banks - IN

Daniel Brooks was Tennessee.

Others on the board can add to the list. It would be interesting to see.

[Niblick]

At UT we recruit nationally more than a lot of SEC schools.

somewhere in here is where the common thread lies with the kids that get into trouble. An out of state kid going to UT on a football scholarship has multiple options. Taking the quality of the football program completely out of it, what makes the average kid choose living 4 years in Knoxville, over 4 years in Florida, Los Angeles, Tallahassee, Miami, Columbus or any number of other cities with schools that have cfb programs on an elite level but a campus/city with much more to offer? Obvisouly impossible to know without asking all of them but I'd bet youd find that the majority of them wanted the feel of the smaller enviornment, and in all honesty it was easier to stand out.

I'm not saying that equates to instand stupidty and crimes, I just think there may be cause for a red flag, but then again what do you do? Begin not recruiting out of state kids with multiple offers? that aint gonna fly.

[popacapinvtwelvesass]

Ummm... hate to say it but I kinda agree with Leon. :brow: Do not underestimate the significance of I-40 and I-75 in regards to running drugs. Also remember the old moonshining days? Well those same areas are now growing weed and cooking meth. Cocke Co. is only what, 45 min. away with cock and dog fighting.

I'm not saying any of our players are involved in these activities but they're not hard to find if someone is looking. There is an underbelly to Knoxville. People are either too naive to realize it exists or they just want to pretend it doesn't exist.

[green hills vol]

Ummm... hate to say it but I kinda agree with Leon. :brow: Do not underestimate the significance of I-40 and I-75 in regards to running drugs. Also remember the old moonshining days? Well those same areas are now growing weed and cooking meth. Cocke Co. is only what, 45 min. away with cock and dog fighting.

I'm not saying any of our players are involved in these activities but they're not hard to find if someone is looking. There is an underbelly to Knoxville. People are either too naive to realize it exists or they just want to pretend it doesn't exist.

That is a good way to put it. The underbelly. I grew up in Knoxville and went to UT. While I never hung out with those crowds it was always something you could feel. Something intangible.

The drug corridor combined with the methheads and shit from the rural areas surrounding Knoxville. Bad combination.

Think about those broke ass redneck hillbilly dumbasses that were victims of the armed robbery. What the fuck were those idiots doing at the Pilot on the strip at midnight on a Tuesday night in November? Not that they were doing anything wrong, but what the hell are those people doing around campus? Trying to pick up college pussy?

[Vol-in-Atl]

I was going to say that too, but drug dealing happens everywhere (see Jimmy Johns/Tuscaloosa). Drugs are a big industry in East Tennessee, I'll grant you, but I don't see that directly impacting the two football incidents we've had lately or any of the other arrests we've had.

[popacapinvtwelvesass]

I was going to say that too, but drug dealing happens everywhere (see Jimmy Johns/Tuscaloosa). Drugs are a big industry in East Tennessee, I'll grant you, but I don't see that directly impacting the two football incidents we've had lately or any of the other arrests we've had.

Like I said, don't underestimate the significance of I-75 and I-40. The Justice Dept. shows two Drug Corridors running through Knoxville; Corridors A and G. Corridor A runs from southern California along the Mexican border for hundreds of miles, cuts up through the gulf states, through Knoxville into the NE terminating north of Syracuse, NY. "G" runs from south FL to Detroit, on into northern MI, Chicago, Milwaukee and Minneapolis.

Now imagine if you had an ex-athlete from, oh let's say MI, who was distributing drugs. What better place to warehouse and distribute than a city sitting right smack in the middle of 2 of the Justice Department's 8 designated Drug Corridors? Maybe guys familiar with the drug business (and we have had our share of athletes dealing) recognize the importance of these Corridors.

Look, I'm not saying this has anything directly to do with the incident at Bar Knoxville or any of the other prior arrests. But it could definitely play a part in the culture we have had surrounding our program for a while now.

[Vol-in-Atl]

You're right, it could and would be fascinating to find out exactly how.

[leonsking]

I have thought about that in the past, and thought about it a lot last year specifically with Mike Edwards. The only thing I can come up with is that Knoxville is the perfect place for kids with D1 talent to get away and play at a D1 school, and at the same time be on a campus/in a town just big enough to provide some form of entertainment/limelight, but at the same time is, in all reality, out in the middle of no where/podunk and they will feel like the big fish in a small pond/big man on campus.

just a thought, but your question is completely understandable. I have wondered the exact same thing for years. I understood kids in trouble under Fulmer, he was a complete bafoon nad it's not hard to see where the lack of respect would come from. I understood the kids in trouible under kiffin, thats like putting a 4 yr old in charge of the cookie jar. But kids in trouble under Dooley, and in the summer when campus is relatively dead is just plain dumb.

The other thing to support the theory would be the kids in trouble themselves. If you looked at every kid that was in trouble for UT football over the last 20 years, I can almost promise you the majority of them would have things in common.

- they had multiple offers from various D1 schools
and
- they were from out of state

yet they choose UT. There has to be a common thread with the majority of them why they chose UT when the majority of kids from any state in the country, if given equal opportunity, would choose to play closer to home.


Dooley didn't recruit these kids. Rogers was a follower not a leader. A 19 yeard old follower. Dooley will need at least 2 maybe 3 years to cull the bad apples. So this business of it happening on his watch doesn't wash. He barely has a "watch" No one can come in and force their will on a bunch of kids in 6 months. He may never be able to force his will on the last of Fulmers kids not should he be expected to. He can tell them that if they screw up they are history but that is just talk. Until he's in there long enough to lead by example with actions then and only then can he be held accountable.

Surely any reasonable man like yourself will understand that.:brow: